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allalone
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Posted: Thu May 27th, 2010 11:02 pm |
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Hi everyone,
I just met with my therapist and am somewhat disheartened. In my last post I mentioned that my husband is still struggling with Step 1, Realizing he is Powerless. He's still in a bit of denial.
Since his "diagnosis" I have been working much harder than he has. I've read everything I can from both the SA and S-Anon perspectives. I've been reading books on what a "healthy" marriage is. I try to share what I learned with him but his interest seems more obligatory towards me than truely wanting recovery.
We are meeting jointly with our therapist in a week or so and I discussed with our therapist my agenda for that meeting. I would like to put into place a "Marriage Recovery Plan" that will spell out what we are both committed to doing for our marriage. Along with that, we will also define the consequences of non-compliance.
One of my conditions has always been that he must follow his program. Right now I feel he is just going through the motions and hopefully this plan can spell out specific things he needs to get done. My idea is that if he doesn't comply, he will have to leave. I can't continue in this world of status quot....I need to see and feel that we are making some progress.
Maybe a trial separation will allow us to both clear our heads and really reflect on what's important for us as individuals, as a couple and for our family.
I'm so disheartened today because of a conflict in my head. It's very evident that he is immature as are all sex addicts. And, what I don't understand is how can an addict mature. After all, it takes 50 years for a person to mature to the level of a 50 year old. How is it possible for a sex addict to "catch up"? My heart aches for closeness and emotional intimacy. You can't get those "adult" feelings from an "adolescent".
I've only know of the sex addiction for a short period of time. But throughout our 22 year marriage I've been trying to capture the closeness and intimacy I need. I'm so very tired of trying and trying and trying. Am I just wasting my time here?
Today, I'm in the mood to just be done with all this madness. I'm sure others have been here before. Do I just hold on for another day? Will things really be better tomorrow?
My prayers for all,
allalone
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Devastated Wife
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Posted: Fri May 28th, 2010 01:41 am |
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Dear Allalone,
I asked my therapist on Tuesday: "Will I ever be married to an adult?" She didn't answer me.
I suspect we will always be married to emotionally immature children who are stuck in adult bodies.
I hope and pray that I am wrong, but I do not see emotional maturation in progress. I see someone who struggles to get through each day and who backslides.
I'll be praying for you.........
My best, DW
____________________
My best, Devastated Wife
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allalone
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Posted: Fri May 28th, 2010 04:13 am |
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I'm so very tired. For 22 years I've been fighting for a partner instead of a child. I really don't think I have the energy or desire for another 22 years!
What am I doing here?
Am I realizing it's the end of my marriage or am I just having a "bad" day?
How do other wives....those with husbands in recovery.....handle it? I keep reading how marriages are BETTER when both work at it....but how is that possible? Do they all of a sudden "grow up"?
Allalone
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honeybee93
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Posted: Fri May 28th, 2010 05:02 am |
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Seperation is always a touchy issue but not a bad idea for a short time. "Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. - I Cor. 7:5" I think many times men need a wake up call to what they stand to lose. When they start having to lay in bed alone, eat microwave dinners, wear dirty clothes, and not be able to find anything, they realize how much they need a good woman in their life. Their loose women would never do those things for them and its time they realize we accept them for their shortcomings and that we do a great deal for them. They can't have both in their lives and the sooner they realize that the better.
When my husband lied a second time, after claiming to be clean for a month, I pulled up the proof, and left a note on the computer over it. I packed my bags and he came home from his trip to an empty house. He ended up going through the drive thru for dinner because the cook was on strike. After a night alone he pleaded for me to come home, that he had found a marriage counselor, which I had been begging him to do for a month. He was never happier than when I walked back through the door the next day. I hate to say it but I think one lady said it right when she said sometimes you have to be more of a mom disciplining her children. I know it's frustrating but sometimes I think men don't respect us if we don't follow through with our actions and let them know we mean business. It's so hard to want a man to lead as spiritual guide when so many men seem spiritually and emotionally immature/distant. Our society is horrible for teaching men that showing emotion is weakness. They bottle up their emotions and it seems like indifference to the problem at hand. I think a lot of guys also avoid dealing with the pain and embarassment, and you really have to light a fire under them, because "I'll get to it when I feel better" doesn't fly. I really feel for you because I know it's so frustrating because you're putting so much effort into getting help for something that is not your direct problem and not your fault. He needs to take the lead and become more involved in the recovery and I pray that he will move in this direction. You're supporting him but definitely not responsible for solving the problem. I love these lyrics from Alanis Morissette's song "Not the Doctor":
I don't want to be the filler if the void is solely yours
I don't want to be your glass of single malt whiskey
Hidden in the bottom drawer
I don't want to be a bandage if the wound is not mine
Lend me some fresh air
I don't want to be adored for what I merely represent to you
I don't want to be your babysitter
You're a very big boy now
I don't want to be your mother
I didn't carry you in my womb for nine months
Show me the back door
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allalone
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Posted: Fri Jun 4th, 2010 02:21 pm |
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I haven't posted any updates lately. I've been trying to make some decisions. My husband is still acting out. He says the masturbation has drastically gone down but it's still there.
We had a small family dinner the other night before heading to our daughter's graduation ceremony. He called to say he was running late and would meet us there. Turns out he actually got out of work early and was where he wasn't supposed to be. Later that night when I confronted him about it, he lied and lied until I put the evidence in front of him. Then the lies turned into excuses. "I wasn't successful in my struggle today and I just didn't want to be around a lot of people".
No one was affected directly since everyone believed he was at work. Except for me, that is. And my daughter who I'm sure would have loved having Dad there the whole evening.
I told him I had enough and he had to move out. Mainly, because I don't think I can deal with this anymore. But if I'm going to be perfectly honest.....I'm thinking he has to truly experience rock bottom and lose everything before he gets serious about this. It would be nice if this was what makes him turn his life around but if it doesn't, well, that's out of my control.
He left for a couple of hours to cool down (or do whatever). We talked later that night. Now I'm more confused than ever. How do you balance compassion for the addict with compassion for yourself? Masturbation is a momentary high for him followed by shame, regret and depression. I can't imagine the life he's leading. But at the same time, it is affecting me. When do I put me first? I don't know if it's even possible since I don't think I've ever done it. Not to mention the irrational guilt that I would feel by doing that!
Yes, we all talk about doing for ourselves. But how long does it really last? We all know we are entitled to some self-care, but knowing and actually doing are two separate things. It's how we are wired or should I say mis-wired. All women should be in therapy just for that! It should be a required class right along side of Algebra and Chemistry!
Another issue is the kids. They are older (19, 17, 14) but they are still children in my eyes. How can I consciously do anything to hurt them? Isn't that a violation of motherhood? Honestly, they don't have a clue as to what's going on. They know we are in counseling but we've told them it's because we're working on making things better for our family.
Our house is the "hang out" for all their friends. Ironically, a majority of their friends come from divorced homes and I think they all gravitate towards here because we have the structure and resemblance of "normalcy". This is the time of their lives I want them to enjoy themselves, have fun and not worry about a thing. They are so close to "adulthood" and everything that entails. I want them to have this time to be "self centered" and not have to deal with very adult issues.
I just don't know what to do. I would appreciate any thoughts and opinions. It really is helpful to get another perspective.
Blessings to all.
allalone
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truthseeker
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Posted: Fri Jun 4th, 2010 04:30 pm |
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Hi Allalone,
This is so individual that it is difficult to comment. Only you are in a position to evaluate whether your husband is progressing, and if he seems sincere about pursuing recovery. Cold turkey without any slips is rare, but maintaining firm boundaries, knowing what your absolute deal-breakers are, is important.
Praying for you...
TruthSeeker
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Devastated Wife
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Posted: Fri Jun 4th, 2010 08:19 pm |
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Dear Allalone,
I empathize with your struggle. The only thing that kept me from throwing him and all of his stuff into the yard was the concern I had for the kids. That said...........
It sounds as if he will have to hit rock bottom before he gets serious about recovery.
Some things to think about...........Questions meant to prompt some crtical thought.........
1. How much time does he spend in the house?
2. What will be the impact of him leaving?
3. Will the house still be the "hang" house for your kids and their friends?
4. How much interaction does he really have with the kids now?
5. What are the kids learning through that interaction or lack thereof?
____________________
My best, Devastated Wife
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Godsgirl211
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Posted: Mon Jun 7th, 2010 02:48 pm |
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Wow.......... Honeybee................... this reply is so full of truth.... and I love this song.............
honeybee93 wrote:
Seperation is always a touchy issue but not a bad idea for a short time. "Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. - I Cor. 7:5" I think many times men need a wake up call to what they stand to lose. When they start having to lay in bed alone, eat microwave dinners, wear dirty clothes, and not be able to find anything, they realize how much they need a good woman in their life. Their loose women would never do those things for them and its time they realize we accept them for their shortcomings and that we do a great deal for them. They can't have both in their lives and the sooner they realize that the better.
When my husband lied a second time, after claiming to be clean for a month, I pulled up the proof, and left a note on the computer over it. I packed my bags and he came home from his trip to an empty house. He ended up going through the drive thru for dinner because the cook was on strike. After a night alone he pleaded for me to come home, that he had found a marriage counselor, which I had been begging him to do for a month. He was never happier than when I walked back through the door the next day. I hate to say it but I think one lady said it right when she said sometimes you have to be more of a mom disciplining her children. I know it's frustrating but sometimes I think men don't respect us if we don't follow through with our actions and let them know we mean business. It's so hard to want a man to lead as spiritual guide when so many men seem spiritually and emotionally immature/distant. Our society is horrible for teaching men that showing emotion is weakness. They bottle up their emotions and it seems like indifference to the problem at hand. I think a lot of guys also avoid dealing with the pain and embarassment, and you really have to light a fire under them, because "I'll get to it when I feel better" doesn't fly. I really feel for you because I know it's so frustrating because you're putting so much effort into getting help for something that is not your direct problem and not your fault. He needs to take the lead and become more involved in the recovery and I pray that he will move in this direction. You're supporting him but definitely not responsible for solving the problem. I love these lyrics from Alanis Morissette's song "Not the Doctor":
I don't want to be the filler if the void is solely yours
I don't want to be your glass of single malt whiskey
Hidden in the bottom drawer
I don't want to be a bandage if the wound is not mine
Lend me some fresh air
I don't want to be adored for what I merely represent to you
I don't want to be your babysitter
You're a very big boy now
I don't want to be your mother
I didn't carry you in my womb for nine months
Show me the back door
____________________
Godsgirl
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Godsgirl211
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Posted: Mon Jun 7th, 2010 02:54 pm |
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My 2 teens that are still at home are 14 and 17 also.......... I know "exactly" what you speak of........ and I mean exactly!! I understand what you are going through........ we have a lot of parallels....... I have no words of wisdom to offer............ just a prayer that God may lead you through this journey......... and be with us all.
allalone wrote:
I haven't posted any updates lately. I've been trying to make some decisions. My husband is still acting out. He says the masturbation has drastically gone down but it's still there.
We had a small family dinner the other night before heading to our daughter's graduation ceremony. He called to say he was running late and would meet us there. Turns out he actually got out of work early and was where he wasn't supposed to be. Later that night when I confronted him about it, he lied and lied until I put the evidence in front of him. Then the lies turned into excuses. "I wasn't successful in my struggle today and I just didn't want to be around a lot of people".
No one was affected directly since everyone believed he was at work. Except for me, that is. And my daughter who I'm sure would have loved having Dad there the whole evening.
I told him I had enough and he had to move out. Mainly, because I don't think I can deal with this anymore. But if I'm going to be perfectly honest.....I'm thinking he has to truly experience rock bottom and lose everything before he gets serious about this. It would be nice if this was what makes him turn his life around but if it doesn't, well, that's out of my control.
He left for a couple of hours to cool down (or do whatever). We talked later that night. Now I'm more confused than ever. How do you balance compassion for the addict with compassion for yourself? Masturbation is a momentary high for him followed by shame, regret and depression. I can't imagine the life he's leading. But at the same time, it is affecting me. When do I put me first? I don't know if it's even possible since I don't think I've ever done it. Not to mention the irrational guilt that I would feel by doing that!
Yes, we all talk about doing for ourselves. But how long does it really last? We all know we are entitled to some self-care, but knowing and actually doing are two separate things. It's how we are wired or should I say mis-wired. All women should be in therapy just for that! It should be a required class right along side of Algebra and Chemistry!
Another issue is the kids. They are older (19, 17, 14) but they are still children in my eyes. How can I consciously do anything to hurt them? Isn't that a violation of motherhood? Honestly, they don't have a clue as to what's going on. They know we are in counseling but we've told them it's because we're working on making things better for our family.
Our house is the "hang out" for all their friends. Ironically, a majority of their friends come from divorced homes and I think they all gravitate towards here because we have the structure and resemblance of "normalcy". This is the time of their lives I want them to enjoy themselves, have fun and not worry about a thing. They are so close to "adulthood" and everything that entails. I want them to have this time to be "self centered" and not have to deal with very adult issues.
I just don't know what to do. I would appreciate any thoughts and opinions. It really is helpful to get another perspective.
Blessings to all.
allalone
____________________
Godsgirl
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allalone
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Posted: Tue Jun 8th, 2010 09:17 pm |
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Yesterday was filled with therapy sessions. First individual therapy for myself and later that evening, jointly with my husband. I was thankful for the few hours in between as it gave me some time to think.
My husband and I haven't had a joint session in a while. It was very sad to once again see how much pain he was in. The issue of lying was addressed and he was asked "what do you think would have happened had you told her the truth?" He couldn't answer.
Here is the strange part....I was almost a tiny bit jealous of our therapist. Even though he was still somewhat withdrawn, it was evident that he was more open with her than with me. I guess the fact that he's talking with anyone is wonderful. And I understand how she would be "safe". Still, I couldn't help but wish he would open up to me. But then again, I've been wishing that for the last 22 years!
We both have "homework" for our next individual sessions. We've also started some rituals that hopefully will help to establish a meaningful connection. We are to tell each other one thing about ourselves that the other is not aware of. (This whole therapy process has me realizing I have my own walls, too!) We are to pray together aloud every morning (hopefully this will start the day knowing what's in each others hearts). At the end of the day, we are each to talk about one good thing and one bad thing that happened during the day. (We're both hoping this will help us get off the topic of sex addiction and recovery since it seems as if that's all we talk about!)
I guess the goal through all this is that we will start to trust each other and view the other as "safe". That in turn will help stop the lying. I was once again reminded that this is going to take time. And even though I want it "now", I really do know that 40 years of habit isn't going to end just like that.
We established some "deal breakers" in our relationship. And also a time frame for which I should see some change. I was asked if my marriage and kids were worth holding on for another six months and I answered "yes". So I'll give it a shot.
Now, knowing me, I'm sure I'll be back on the forum ranting about what he did and why he needs to leave. Some one please remind me about my lack of patience!
I talked to my therapist about the maturity level and if he would ever be an "adult". She pointed out to me that he was able to hold a job and support his family (like an adult) and he was able to interact with adults at an adult level. Also, he interacts with his kids as a parent/adult. His therapy work will be in the emotional area...not a small task...but hopeful.
We'll see...
allalone
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truthseeker
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Posted: Wed Jun 9th, 2010 05:34 am |
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Hi Allalone,
I'm glad to hear such optomistic news!
Continuing to pray...
TruthSeeker
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Devastated Wife
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Posted: Thu Jun 10th, 2010 01:37 pm |
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I talked to my therapist about the maturity level and if he would ever be an "adult". She pointed out to me that he was able to hold a job and support his family (like an adult) and he was able to interact with adults at an adult level. Also, he interacts with his kids as a parent/adult. His therapy work will be in the emotional area...not a small task...but hopeful.
We'll see...
allalone
Dear Allalone,
The above statement has been nagging at me for a couple of days. I think your therapist lacks empathy and perspicacity. There is something distinctly juvenile about the sex-addict. It's very difficult for me to describe it with particularity. The sex addict functions as an adult does in many areas, but I think it's a facade. A job is something they cling to like a life-line. As to interaction with the children, my husband never did assume his rightful place as the head of the home, as the spiritual head of the home and he only interacted with the children at my insistence. He wasn't a father to them.....he was nothing more than a glorified baby-sitter....never taking any interest in their education or development. He was a work-a-holic and used that as his excuse to avoid interaction. Your therapist may be confusing "holding down a job" and "interacting with adults like an adult" and avoidance behavior. My husband used any excuse possible to avoid spending time with me and the kids.........any excuse. He never enjoyed spending time with us. If we wanted to spend time with him, we had to step into his world......he would never make the effort to step into our world. In that sense, my husband was and is extremely childish.
Anecdotally, we've gone to the same hairdresser for 20 years. She is a down to earth, salt of the earth woman. She does not know what is going on with him, but she has said in the past that my husband "seems awfully young." She can't put her finger on it, but she senses it. Please do not discount what your gut is telling you about your husband. Please listen to that little voice in your head. Trust YOUR gut hunch more than the largely unsubstantiated hunch of your therapist.
Consider this: There is a distinct possibility that your therapist is clueless.....don't discount that possibility.
FROM: http://www.sexaddict.com/FAQ.html
"....7. WHAT IS IT LIKE TO LIVE WITH A SEX ADDICT FROM A PARTNER'S OR WIFE'S PERSPECTIVE?
The partners/wives of sex addicts report many similar feelings about living with the sex addict. The feeling of aloneness is a common experience with partners of sex addicts, the sense that he can't open up and tell you about his "real" self. The confusion of even after you do certain behaviors that this still is not enough and the hopelessness that there isn't enough. Anger for many different unmet needs as a person and as a woman are often common...."
A child cannot fathom let alone meet the needs of another adult or a woman.........
My best, DW
____________________
My best, Devastated Wife
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allalone
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Posted: Fri Jun 11th, 2010 12:46 am |
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Dear Truthseeker,
Optomistic or naive?????
Allalone
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Babette
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Posted: Fri Jun 11th, 2010 05:17 pm |
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For those of you who with older kids, and in process of therapy, you sound like people on mile 21 in a marathon!
Your husbands are disappointing, but I know God is working gold in your hearts. What fruits of the Spirit is He growing in you through this?
Whatever evil things people do, God can turn them for good. Whatever our spouses do, God can still bring victory in our own lives. That is the goodness of God, right?
It is a victory that you are in therapy. It is ugly, but you are on the path. Remember back when you were in the dark?
Here is a book for those who are trying to stay married: Thriving Despite a Difficult Marriage by Chuck Misja. It talks a lot about being married to an immature spouse. It does not address addiction though.
____________________
Babette
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andrewwright
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Posted: Sat Jun 12th, 2010 06:18 pm |
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Hi. I used to be addicted to porn, until I read and understood this book and applied its solutions to my life.
OPEN TO BLISS by Omid Mankoo
his blog http://sagehope.wordpress.com
I understood about mind manipulations within porn, and why they are so powerful, and how to disempower them. I learned how my mind works, and how to disengage my mind from their influences. I highly recomend this book, since its the best straight forward knowledge I found about the actual solution to it that explains the dynamics of the problem and the solution so specifically.
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Godsgirl211
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Posted: Mon Jun 14th, 2010 04:49 pm |
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andrewwright wrote: Hi. I used to be addicted to porn, until I read and understood this book and applied its solutions to my life.
OPEN TO BLISS by Omid Mankoo
his blog http://sagehope.wordpress.com
I understood about mind manipulations within porn, and why they are so powerful, and how to disempower them. I learned how my mind works, and how to disengage my mind from their influences. I highly recomend this book, since its the best straight forward knowledge I found about the actual solution to it that explains the dynamics of the problem and the solution so specifically.
I bought this book for my husband! Hoping he reads it!
____________________
Godsgirl
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TM2
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Posted: Mon Jun 14th, 2010 06:14 pm |
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Not to put too fine a point on it, but there are probably better things for your husband to read. Patrick Carnes is the expert in the psychological community on sex addiction. Anything of his is good. I've heard good things from a number of people about "The Porn Trap" by Maltz and Maltz, though I haven't read it myself. Many Christians seem to relate to "Every Man's Battle" and the related books. Craig Nakken is another expert on addiction I've been significantly influenced by. Finally, for me, reading the Big Book "Alcoholics Anonymous" and changing the word "Alcohol" to "Porn" in my mind was a life-changing experience.
Any of those books are by authors with some balance and training in psychology.
By contrast, reading Omid Mankoo's page is an experience of unbelievably grandiose self-promotion, paranoid discussions of mind manipulation, rambling discourses on his years of homelessness and a particular arrest in California, and wild religious syncretism. He's a guy who writes about himself,
"It is indeed rare to find a person who is astute and unbiased in the study, verification and application of spiritual knowledge of various religions."
"At age 15, he came to the United States and for six or seven years he studied Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism, and Buddhism. All scriptures were helpful in his understanding God, life and morality better. However, guided and taught by God he was introduced to the knowledge contained in the Bhagavad-Gita, which was quite extraordinary for him. It was a great help in his road to uncovering the sources of lust, as well as overcoming it."
"[H]he has put aside dogma, and looked earnestly into the religious scriptures of the world, in order to understand what the intended meaning of the author of the scripture is trying to communicate. He has found deep enlightening truths to permeate all true revelations. He has tested, questioned and analyzed these truths with scrutiny and from various perspectives every step of the way. His first Book “Open to Bliss…” is, the first of a series of books, to be a guide for those with honest minds, who thirst for practical knowledge, about problems which they seem great difficulty to find answers to. In short, these bodies of knowledge are guidance for humanity."
"Confronted with my inner turmoil, about this subject matter, and recognizing the significance, and the tremendous potency of this sexual attraction, I turned all my abilities, honed through the years, to name a few, my skillful attention, diligent tenacity, precise thinking ability, uncompromising honesty, spiritual insight, and knowledge of the inner-workings of the mind, toward solving this mystery. Present here in your hands you have my 242 insights, by which I unravvelled and understood this grand and perplexing mystery, and the methods I applied, to release myself, from the clutches of this multi-headed Dragon. Share this treasure and enrich the world."
Mankoo describes himself as a rare spiritual master who was taught and guided by supreme masters, and describes his book as "Open to Bliss, Sage Hope´s 1st Gift to Humanity, The Definitive & Complete Solution Manual to Sexual Attraction & Addiction."
Modest fellow, ain't he?
He also spends a lot of his autobiographical web page being angry at a particular police officer in California.
Finally, he's been here and on a bunch of other sites engaging in shameless self-promotion.
I've been wrong before, but to me, none of this sounds sensible, balanced, or well-informed. There are lots of wonderful books on sexual addiction and recovery. It seems a shame to me to start with one written by somebody who frankly sounds like a nut case.
Just how it seems to me, of course.
Tim M.
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Devastated Wife
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Posted: Mon Jun 14th, 2010 06:59 pm |
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| Agreed, Tim. I'm seeing shameless self-promotion here.....
____________________
My best, Devastated Wife
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allalone
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| Joined: | Tue May 4th, 2010 |
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Posted: Tue Jun 15th, 2010 06:23 am |
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Dear everyone!!!
This roller coaster is absolutely INSANE! I'm so optimistic when my husband and I agree on a course of action. It gives me such hope.
Then BAM!!! There's a slip and a lie within hours of our agreement. Painfully, the hurt and betrayal I feel is not only about the "lie de jour". It also brings back all the hurt and pain of finding out I've been in the dark for 22 years.
How can I do an "emotional disconnect" from my addict? I really thought I was prepared to kick him out the door because he violated my "deal breaker". But then, when faced with having to tell my kids, I backed down. I know that was a big mistake. I should not have stated a consequence that I wasn't prepared to follow through with.
I just feel it would be a such a violation of the motherhood code to intentionally do something that would inflict pain on my children. Is it that we must sit and wait until the pain of this addiction out weighs the pain caused to our children? If I find that causing pain to my children will cripple me, then how can I possibly survive the pain of continuous betrayal?
What kind of "deal breakers" can one put into place when dealing with an addict that has a 30-40 year history? Obviously, sex with other people would be one. But it doesn't seem as if that's an issue right now. No masturbating? No porn? No lies? That's not a realistic expectation for someone new to recovery. Is it?
It would be wonderful if he could trust me enough that he wouldn't need to lie. But he hasn't trusted anyone his entire life.
I really believe my husbands heart was fully into our agreement. My mistake was not giving enough credit and respect to the power this addiction has over him.
It's as if I'm up against a wall and all my decisions are based on what's best for everyone else. Putting myself first will hurt others. I realize that the addiction has interfered with his relationship with the kids. It's impossible for the addiction not to. However, he has always been interested in their lives. They have a great relationship. They spend a lot of time together and he's very supportive of them. While things could have been better without the addiction, I truly don't feel they think they are missing anything from their Dad.
I try to take my own advice and just deal with one day at a time. But every day seems to be the same as the day before. Is this to be my life? It's just so hard not to think of the future and the years needed just to reach a "maintenance" level of sobriety. If this pain is so intense now that I'm often paralyzed, then what will it do to me at time goes on? I'm so drained and exhausted.
I would very much welcome some advice and suggestions that have worked for others.
Thank you,
allalone
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andrewwright
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Posted: Thu Jun 17th, 2010 02:52 pm |
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TM2 wrote: Not to put too fine a point on it, but there are probably better things for your husband to read. Patrick Carnes is the expert in the psychological community on sex addiction. Anything of his is good. I've heard good things from a number of people about "The Porn Trap" by Maltz and Maltz, though I haven't read it myself. Many Christians seem to relate to "Every Man's Battle" and the related books. Craig Nakken is another expert on addiction I've been significantly influenced by. Finally, for me, reading the Big Book "Alcoholics Anonymous" and changing the word "Alcohol" to "Porn" in my mind was a life-changing experience.
Any of those books are by authors with some balance and training in psychology.
By contrast, reading Omid Mankoo's page is an experience of unbelievably grandiose self-promotion, paranoid discussions of mind manipulation, rambling discourses on his years of homelessness and a particular arrest in California, and wild religious syncretism. He's a guy who writes about himself,
"It is indeed rare to find a person who is astute and unbiased in the study, verification and application of spiritual knowledge of various religions."
"At age 15, he came to the United States and for six or seven years he studied Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism, and Buddhism. All scriptures were helpful in his understanding God, life and morality better. However, guided and taught by God he was introduced to the knowledge contained in the Bhagavad-Gita, which was quite extraordinary for him. It was a great help in his road to uncovering the sources of lust, as well as overcoming it."
"[H]he has put aside dogma, and looked earnestly into the religious scriptures of the world, in order to understand what the intended meaning of the author of the scripture is trying to communicate. He has found deep enlightening truths to permeate all true revelations. He has tested, questioned and analyzed these truths with scrutiny and from various perspectives every step of the way. His first Book “Open to Bliss…” is, the first of a series of books, to be a guide for those with honest minds, who thirst for practical knowledge, about problems which they seem great difficulty to find answers to. In short, these bodies of knowledge are guidance for humanity."
"Confronted with my inner turmoil, about this subject matter, and recognizing the significance, and the tremendous potency of this sexual attraction, I turned all my abilities, honed through the years, to name a few, my skillful attention, diligent tenacity, precise thinking ability, uncompromising honesty, spiritual insight, and knowledge of the inner-workings of the mind, toward solving this mystery. Present here in your hands you have my 242 insights, by which I unravvelled and understood this grand and perplexing mystery, and the methods I applied, to release myself, from the clutches of this multi-headed Dragon. Share this treasure and enrich the world."
Mankoo describes himself as a rare spiritual master who was taught and guided by supreme masters, and describes his book as "Open to Bliss, Sage Hope´s 1st Gift to Humanity, The Definitive & Complete Solution Manual to Sexual Attraction & Addiction."
Modest fellow, ain't he?
He also spends a lot of his autobiographical web page being angry at a particular police officer in California.
Finally, he's been here and on a bunch of other sites engaging in shameless self-promotion.
I've been wrong before, but to me, none of this sounds sensible, balanced, or well-informed. There are lots of wonderful books on sexual addiction and recovery. It seems a shame to me to start with one written by somebody who frankly sounds like a nut case.
Just how it seems to me, of course.
Tim M.
Psychology if you do not know already ows a lot to knowledge that and theories which psychologists developed by visiting foreign cultures, and indeed Jung borrowed knowlegde from India in particular.
I do not know, whether the Author Omid Mankoo is indeed a sage or not, or if he has indeed experienced sirituality as he describes it, nor do I know if he is well eductaed in matters of religion. However what I do know is that the knowledge in his book totally explained to me how attraction and addiction occurs. it shows how my mind worked, and showed how I could free my mind from porn. It was an uphill battle, but at least i had some solid information to go on. and I was making progress.
You said 'paranoid discussions on mind manipulation'. That is the crux of the problem. a person is manipulated without the person being aware of it. it is like NLP. neuro linguistic programming. I am sure psychologists know about some degree of mind manipulation, but you do not call them paranoid.
you said "rambling discourses on his years of homelessness" why would you call it a 'discourse' when it is listed in the 'about' section of his blog.
you jokingly commented that 'Modest fellow, ain't he?' suggesting that he isn't modest. I disagree completely. here is a quote from his site from a section named 'You' I will bold a nimportant part.
'You
You, your true nature, your truest nature, your purest nature IS in harmony with peace, togetherness, love, etc. It is in harmony with nature, it is in harmony with the Universe, and for those who believe in God, it is in harmony with God.
You are non-different from me (Sage Hope). Your essential nature is sacred and pure. I do not deny my true pristine nature nor do I deny your true pristine nature.
To those who are beginners on the path of sacred knowledge, they might mistakenly perceive that a sage is higher, and more valuable than they are. However, for those for those with great depth of learning they come to slowly but surely realize that their true nature is equal with a saint.
Many people with personal problems (such as anger, lust, judgement, etc.) mistakenly attribute their problems, and their faulty actions to themselves. They mistakenly think that their own faulty actions arise from within themselves. They are not aware of manipulations, trickery and deceitful influences over their body, emotions and mind. They are often not aware that a lack of education leads to possessing these problems. Therefore they fall into the trap of mistakenly thinking that they themselves are the problem.
Time and again, teachers have come to remind you, to educate and instruct you, of your pristine nature. Likewise, time and again teachers have reminded you to stay away from the temptations which alter your original pure consciousness. While people listen to the numerous teachers’ teachings on being wary of not giving in to the nature of mischief, lies and deceits, people mistakenly attribute those temptations as part of their natural self.
Partly this is due to a language barrier, and partly due to lack of comprehensive understanding of the teachings. For example, one can speak of the higher nature of man, and the lower nature of man. I think of the higher nature of man as its true nature.
...
Essentially those who seek truth and find it, do so because they are truly seeking. Those who are honest with themselves, open themselves up to receiving knowlegde, they seek and they find. Those who are dishonest with themselves close themselves off to truth, they seek in a limited way, and so limit their understanding because of biases which they have. Had they been well versed in the religion which they are accustomed to they would know passages which describes gaining knowledge and wisdom, and anything truthful from any source is appropriate.
This same argument applies to those who do not believe in God. All that is necessary is for a person to look to see if the knowledge spoken of makes sense, and is verifiable, in daily life.
Lastly I wish YOU well. For those who choose to take and enrich themselves with the knowledge revealed in this book and apply it to their lives they are sure to gain victory over all forms of lust. I bid you farewell.'
he also states about himself:
'simple Sage Hope'
I'll give you a quote from his book , he starts out in the FOREWORD section of his book
'Masters (those who have mastered themselves) dissemintae their teachings out of hearfelt compassionfor the masses.'
again this is about his modesty:
in his 'Why I wrote the book section' on the website he states
'My natural behavior is to share, since I see all beings as part of one community. Each of us is equal as any other being. I am not higher than you, nor below you. I am equal with you. So, if I have knowledge I would want to share it.'
also he stated on the website
'I began researching into sexual attraction because it was a puzzle to me and I wanted to figure it out. I had thought of sharing it freely by the internet. The problem is that anyone could then take my ideas and copyright it and ban me from sharing it. Plus, others may present the information not very clearly, not precisely. They may choose to sit on the information and not share it, and distribute it to few, and far in between for a very high price.
It was crucial for me to ensure that the everyday person, from any class of society whether rich or poor would have the ability to access this information. The only way I thought possible, given my limited budget was to publish a book. In this way, they would have proper guidance, and rich information at their fingertips.'
he starts out in his bio firstly acknowledging God as the best teacher
'God is first and foremost, the best and most thorough teacher. Omid is a rare Spiritual Master who has taken as teacher God, with the aid of silence and truth including other scholarly teachers and regarded them as his own'
You stated that the author stated "It is indeed rare to find a person who is astute and unbiased in the study, verification and application of spiritual knowledge of various religions." and based on this and other examples you call him "unbelievably grandiose self-promotion" however, let's finish that quote that you stated.
'It is indeed rare to find a person who is astute and unbiased in the study, verification and application of spiritual knowledge of various religions. However, according to Omid, it should not be rare. He states that every one of us has the ability to understand the rich information in religions. “However, many because of biases, lack of interest, confusion, or lack of time fail to see the messages clearly. It is rather elementary, and that is why every sweet loving child is a true master . Many adults have learned a lot of misinformation that has made their thinking dull and jaded.'
Here is what he states which sheds light on 'what you may see as grandiose' but in fact it is quite different.
On Mastership:
Mastership is about returning to childhood innocence. The Mastership which Omid speaks of, in referring to himself, is one of Mastering himself. Indeed, he declares that each one of us has the ability to Master ourselves. Omid is not fond of titles. He is usually stripping away untruths that are often hidden behind words. However, it is important for him to communicate to you, in some way, of the significance of the knowledge which he possesses and the type of person he is.
In His Own Words:
“Truthfully, we are all the same, Infinitely Precious, Divine and Phenomenal. An ant in the face of all of existence ought to remain humble, however, in the face of his own existence ought to remain awestruck of this unknown inexplicable life which (s)he is”.
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