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Devastated Wife
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Posted: Mon Aug 30th, 2010 03:49 pm |
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I'd like to invite Mike, Truthseeker and Tim or anyone else to chime in on this question. It seems the presumption in Mike's writings is that an actual, physical encounter is more damaging to a wife than porn. I think I disagree.
I think masturbation to porn that depicts a fetish is more damaging to a marriage than an actual affair. Knowing what my husband was looking at and getting his jollies from is tormenting me.
I think it would be easier for me to accept if he was engaged in "normal" sex with a longterm partner than masturbating multiple times a day to porn that degraded and subjugated young women who appeared to be our daughter's age. That's a special type of sick and twisted. I wonder what kind of a monster I married. Depression and bitterness are overwhelming me. I'd appreciate thoughts on this subject.
My best, DW
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My best, Devastated Wife
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truthseeker
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Posted: Mon Aug 30th, 2010 05:37 pm |
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Hi DW,
In interests of strict rationality, though I realize that emotion is at the forefront for you at the moment, it is unlikely that your husband is very closely akin to the man you married. He has had more than two decades to escalate from an occasional beer binge to being a crack-head. This DOES NOT reflect on you or your choice of a husband.
I think that I can grasp that the nature of his behavior of which you are aware could be more disturbing than the violation of conceiving his flesh entwined with another woman's. I can see that you might reasonably infer that he might wish to interact with you in such a manner, and that is, indeed, disturbing.
So I guess what I am basically saying is that "worse" may well be different for each of us.
TruthSeeker
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Devastated Wife
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Posted: Mon Aug 30th, 2010 05:44 pm |
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"...He has had more than two decades to escalate from an occasional beer binge to being a crack-head. This DOES NOT reflect on you or your choice of a husband...."
Thank you........those are words of wisdom that I needed to hear.
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TM2
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Posted: Mon Aug 30th, 2010 06:31 pm |
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I can't say what's more damaging to a spouse. I haven't been there. There's nothing I can juxtapose to your actual experience.
I'd make a couple of observations, though:
(1) I think that what we fantasize about and what we would actually do can sometimes be quite different. Scenes I found alluring when alone and when disconnected from real people and real emotions would have been frightening and perhaps repellant in real life. It's easy to push that bit of self-defense too far, deluding ourselves that we would never do XYZ. I don't say that, nor do I minimize the hurtfulness of what I did do. But I also think that the soulless and distant process of imagining encounters is so different from any possible real encounter with a woman the age of your daughter or of mine that it may be hard both for us and for others to think rightly about the emotional content and meaning of our porn.
(2) It's also not uncommon for addicts to chase the original high into places that are uncomfortable even for us. We get habituated to things that used to give us an incredible rush; and unable to get that same rush again, we go for higher doses, stronger drugs, more aberrant behavior. I've met a lot of men who identify as straight who have been led by the process of escalation to seek out gay porn or gay encounters, but who strongly deny that this is their preference. It's just more forbidden, more dangerous, a futile attempt to chase the old thrill. If people can deny being attracted to things they may spend many hours a day seeking, then perhaps it's hard for anyone else to discern what we are really seeking, what we really crave.
Again, none of this is a defense of our actions nor an effort to minimize their gravity. It's just a suggestion not to ascribe more rationality to us than our actions warrant. Our compulsive desires pull us many ways, and our actions hurt us as well as others. To me it seems perfectly possible to seek compulsively things that also repel us, to chase images we would not chase in life, to keep our children and the objects of our lust so separate in our minds that connection is hidden even from ourselves.
That doesn't necessarily make us easier to forgive or to stay with. It may also make us even more broken, even more confused, even more incomprehensible. But my experience is that every time one says of an addict, "He must be thinking ABC because he does XYZ," one is more than likely wrong. Our actions don't make that much sense, even to us.
Don't know if that's relevant or not, but it's all I've got.
Tim
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Devastated Wife
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Posted: Mon Aug 30th, 2010 07:25 pm |
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Thank you, Tim. It helps to hear that from someone other than the addict I'm married to, and the counselor whom I do not trust.
I am guilty of ascribing rationality where there is none. Thank you. That is helpful.
My best, DW
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djdaffy1227
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Posted: Mon Aug 30th, 2010 08:39 pm |
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If I may add to this. Jesus said "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
I wouldn't say there is a worse. I'd say they are both equally bad.
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mike
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Posted: Tue Aug 31st, 2010 08:21 pm |
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I married Michelle in 1989. For the next 2 years, she knew of my porn problem; it seemed to cause her more confusion and embarassment than anything else. But when I told her I'd crossed the line and committed adultery with a prostitute in 1991, she was up and down with sobbing and rage for months on end.
I know of another lady here in Colorado who walked into her home and discovered her husband having sex with a prostitute, in their bed. It traumatized her so much that she ended up in a mental hospital.
Watching a movie and fantasizing about hitting someone on the head with a club isn't the same as actually hitting a person.
Having said this, you're the only one who can answer your question about which one would bother you more.
Or, if it really matters. Your situation and hurt won't be the same as everyone else's. There are some men who don't touch porn but have multiple affairs, some who do both, and others who stick to porn alone.
In the end, I know it's very painful for you and pray for your healing.
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Devastated Wife
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Posted: Tue Aug 31st, 2010 08:29 pm |
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Thank you, Mike. Every bit of perspective helps. I don't know why this is bothering me so right now. Perhaps the Holy Spirit is trying to tell me something.
I appreciate your input.
My best, DW
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mike
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Posted: Tue Aug 31st, 2010 08:55 pm |
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> I don't know why this is bothering me so right now.
There is a spiritual battle going on here, and the enemy will use every angle he can to grind us into despair. If he can keep you embroiled in bitterness by saying things like, "see, they said someone else's pain is worse than yours, they're belittling what you're going through" he will.
Your pain is great, and no one here would think of trying to minimize it.
From what I've read, your counselor hasn't been the best at understanding the gravity of your situation, and that (in addition to what your husband has done) makes you angry. Do you feel heard? Do you have anyone where you live who has really been able to support you?
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Devastated Wife
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Posted: Thu Sep 2nd, 2010 02:12 pm |
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"Do you feel heard?" I think you just hit the nail on the head. NO. I do not think either of my counselors "got it." The one we're seeing now is clueless. Last time we saw her, I asked my husband if he was getting anything out of the sessions. He didn't think so, but wanted to continue until we found someone better. I note with no small measure of disgust that he has done NOTHING to make that happen. I'm not going to fix this for him.
The women in my SA group get it, but many of them truly are co-dependent and are content to wallow in it. And I haven't been back there in ages. I want help and solid suggestions for dealing with this and healing.
I think you are correct........there is a spiritual battle going on here. I do not feel as though I've been heard. I do feel all alone.
My best, DW
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Man
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Posted: Wed Sep 21st, 2011 01:57 pm |
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TM2 wrote:
(2) It's also not uncommon for addicts to chase the original high into places that are uncomfortable even for us. We get habituated to things that used to give us an incredible rush; and unable to get that same rush again, we go for higher doses, stronger drugs, more aberrant behavior. I've met a lot of men who identify as straight who have been led by the process of escalation to seek out gay porn or gay encounters, but who strongly deny that this is their preference. It's just more forbidden, more dangerous, a futile attempt to chase the old thrill. If people can deny being attracted to things they may spend many hours a day seeking, then perhaps it's hard for anyone else to discern what we are really seeking, what we really crave.
Again, none of this is a defense of our actions nor an effort to minimize their gravity. It's just a suggestion not to ascribe more rationality to us than our actions warrant. Our compulsive desires pull us many ways, and our actions hurt us as well as others. To me it seems perfectly possible to seek compulsively things that also repel us, to chase images we would not chase in life, to keep our children and the objects of our lust so separate in our minds that connection is hidden even from ourselves.
Thanks for sharing this.
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guitarist63
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Posted: Fri Sep 23rd, 2011 10:19 pm |
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With regard to your question about the fetish being more damaging to you than if your husband had sought out a real encounter, I can't offer any relevant insights.
Last edited on Sat Sep 24th, 2011 12:59 pm by guitarist63
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jjules
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Posted: Sun Oct 9th, 2011 04:58 am |
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Devastated Wife wrote:
I think masturbation to porn that depicts a fetish is more damaging to a marriage than an actual affair. Knowing what my husband was looking at and getting his jollies from is tormenting me.
Not knowing what the prostitutes looked like, what they did, what they wore, what my husband treated them like. That kills me if I dwell on it. All 50 or so of them.
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