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junkyardboy
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Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 01:57 pm |
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just listened to one of those shows that discuss the problems confronting the world today.
the premise of the guest was that the answer or solution starts with each of us getting in touch with the spark, kernel or piece of goodness/divine which lives in all of us.
is he correct?
does each and everyone of us carry a spark of rhe divine within us?
____________________
have we been abandoned by God?
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/dr_john_macarth.html
http://www.valleybible.net/position_papers.php
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Wilderness Voice
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Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 03:23 pm |
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We need to get in touch with the source of the spark as the spark can be buried under layers and layers of sin and darkness. Reach out and touch God, the source of all light and love and life, the one who created you. He alone has the power that you need. Then the spark within will grow and grow and reach an immense size. All blessings come from God above who lights our candle here below.
In Christ,
Wilderness Voice
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junkyardboy
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Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 04:41 pm |
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greetings wilderness,
thanks for your thoughtful reply.
it sounds as if, though it may be deep and hidden, that divine nature is within us all.
would that conclusion be correct?
peter
____________________
have we been abandoned by God?
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/dr_john_macarth.html
http://www.valleybible.net/position_papers.php
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Wilderness Voice
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Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 09:41 pm |
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Yes and no,
Jesus spoke to certain ones and said that they were of their father - the devil. I would not worry about who this category of people might be and it is highly unlikely anyone you would possilby know personally. These are the types that are very, very evil and work the works of evil. Not the people talking on this board. And - we don't need to know who they are - God does - He knows everyone thoroughly and knows those who are born of the spirit of the devil - just as Jesus knew who they were.
The only reason I pointed this out, is to answer your question exactly - no, not every single person has a piece of the divine nature (of our Father God). Some purposefully discard what they may have had in their hatred of God. But again - I wouldn't concentrate on this at all. Concentrate on the Great Light and Life and Love that God Himself is and all that He wants to give us. We have often smothered the wonderful gift of God in our pursuit of pleasureable sins and disobedience to His will. We must desire Him first and above all then the power to withstand evil will come and be strong.
Wilderness Voice
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guitarist63
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Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 11:31 pm |
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It seems to me that to consider oneself divine would be blasphemy. I don't understand the topic at all or where it is leading.
Last edited on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 08:14 pm by guitarist63
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Seeking God
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Posted: Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 12:12 am |
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In my opinion,
God created humans in His image, gave His breath of life to dust like us. But, our sins made it horribly contrary to what it supposed to be. Instead of living in His image, we are more often fall in the evil one's image.
Jesus came to correct these things, He gave the true image of God for us, so we can follow Him, as He is the firstborn among us, to take us to our Father, which by the spirit vested in us in our baptism, we call Him, "Abba, Father".
So, as 'cliche' as it my seems, we should focus on Jesus.
Again, only my opinion.
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junkyardboy
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Posted: Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 02:06 am |
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hello wv,
the quote of Christ to which you refer is taken from John 8:44.
it seems clear from the context that Christ is talking to the Pharisees and many others who had the clear problem of not believing Christ.
in that case i would beg to differ with you as i have met lots of those.
or do you mean something or someone different and if so who.
also you stated some had discarded their divine nature, so they must have had it
at one time. correct?
hello seeking,
i have heard it often that God created us in His image.
can you explain please?
are we still in his image?
thanks for your time,
peter
____________________
have we been abandoned by God?
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/dr_john_macarth.html
http://www.valleybible.net/position_papers.php
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truthseeker
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Posted: Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 04:53 am |
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Hi Peter,
This concept which the program touted is part of new age, pagan, and eastern philosophies, as far as I know. Scripture tells us that the heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. We are, of course, born with a sin nature. As Jesus told us that we should come to Him as little children, or with childlike faith, I believe that indicates an innocence in childhood that is open to God's love and redemption. Although many do come to know the Lord as adults, by the Holy Spirit drawing them, I would suggest that that innate innocence is lost if a conscious choice is made to reject God and His salvation in Jesus Christ, or, perhaps, not having heard the Gospel, specifically choosing a life focused on selfishness. As a lay person, my understanding of the Bible would have me conclude that the only part of God that can be within us is the Holy Spirit, and that He will only dwell in a true believer in Jesus Christ.
What does it mean to be created in His image? There was a thread on this a while back, but I do not recall all of what that included. What I took away from it is that it is not God's physical image, since we are told that He is spirit, and that those who would worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth. My own conclusion is that we have the capacity, as believers, to love what He loves, to desire to create works of beauty, and to conduct ourselves with agape love, and the rest of the fruit of the Spirit.
I am certainly curious about yours and others perceptions of this challenging concept.
TruthSeeker
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Wilderness Voice
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Posted: Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 01:25 pm |
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We are at the very least tri-partate creatures. We have a body, a soul, and a spirit. Our bodies are formed of the elements contained within our parents: the DNA instructions, etc. and then that which comes from the Earth itself: the food our mother’s intake which is formed of the seeds, the water, the minerals of the soil, and the light of the sun. So our bodies are made of the combination of our parent’s chemistry and that of the nature of the Earth. The account of the formation of our original parents, Adam and Eve, tells us that God also used the elements of the Earth in forming Adam, but the other essentials of their body came from God himself. Thus one could make the connection that all the human race in their physical form were created from God himself; He being the originator and creator of the species. But we must also remember that sin added the element of death to that original body and the generations that followed contained sin and the elements of death which have affected the way that we appear, how we live, what struggles we must put up with, etc. These affects are physical as well as spiritual as evidenced by the decaying nature of our bodies and all that surrounds us in this fallen world. God Himself is Life Everlasting and we have lost, or not gained this express aspect of His Image by the sin of our first parents. We only contain Life Everlasting in the promise received from Christ. Our mortal bodies have not been transfigured or transformed into that state of Everlasting Life that we hope for it in the resurrection. That we might have an immortal body similar to that which Christ had after He arose from the dead. We have not arisen from the dead and therefore do not have this element of immortality fully at work yet in our fallen earthly bodies and will not have until the promises of God have come in their fullness. In this aspect alone, we are missing an essential part of the divinity of God: Everlasting Life in its full reality. Our souls might have received Everlasting Life when we accepted Christ as our Saviour, but our bodies do not contain the evidence of the fullness of redemption yet.
Our souls were formed by God and in this we have our individual personalities, traits, and talents. And the soul is dynamic – it can grow and develop and receive more from God and become something much more than the seeds that were originally placed there by God. But the soul can also choose to grow and develop and receive much from sin. We can feed sin into our souls and poison them and pollute them and cause the decay of the soul to grow to immense proportions containing much darkness. Because we are born into fallen bodies, in a fallen world – a world subject to Satan – the Prince of the Power of the Air, our souls are prone to choose sinful ways and thereby we enter this life on Earth with a sinful nature mixed directly in or attached in some way to the soul that God created sinless. This is surely the curse of being human – to be born with the cards already stacked against you. When we come to Christ – our souls received a transformation wrought by Grace in which the Blood that Christ shed here on Earth and the literal Power of that Blood which is yet present with us, transforms our soul, washing away the death that sin has wrought upon it. Thus our soul portion receives the redemption from sin and the removal of death caused by sin and our soul receives its immortality from Christ. Our soul is subject to our will and we can choose whom we serve. We have the choice to serve God or the choice to serve the devil. Our soul is thus culpable for its willful choices. Our souls can become quickly enslaved to sin because of its magnetic powers upon our soul. So when the wonderful opportunity of freedom presents itself, we should grab onto it and hold with all our might – all the Grace that God gives in a time of temptation. Sometimes God in his Wisdom will let us wallow a little while in our sins until we have learned our lesson to never, never, never, no not once ever, ever to go back to it. To never make the one single choice to enter back into to something we’ve been freed from. Because sin, especially sexual sin, is almost assuredly an immediate enslavement and bondage to serve under miserably until the Grace is given to once again break those chains forever. This is why Jesus commands us to “go and sin no more.” We are responsible for the souls God gave us and will be accountable for what we did in and with our souls. This part of us can only be made “divine” by the workings of Christ done in conjunction with our efforts toward Him. This is the sanctification that comes from the Spirit of God but requires our cooperation for its full effects to be worked out. This is where many Christians fail in their walk, because they rely on a one-time meeting with the Spirit of Christ when they first accepted Him as their Savior and they fail to take up the cross daily and let that Spirit of Christ and of God work out the fullness of their sanctification.
The third part of us is spirit. We are given a living spirit from God above at the beginning of our earthly life. This spirit from God is what causes life to be. Without a portion of God’s life within us, we would have no life at all. Death cannot produce life and this fallen world cannot contain or produce life without the spirit of life from God being present. It is this spirit of life that is divided asunder from the soul at the death of an unsaved sinner. The spirit of life goes back to God who gave it and the dead soul departs unto its place awaiting judgment. Our soul must choose to allow our spirit to be divinely inspirited – in-spirited by the Holy Spirit of God. Our soul chooses whether or not to allow our motivation to be toward the Godly things of God or the evil things of the devil. When we choose sin, we are letting the spirit of the evil one influence us to choose that which is wrong – we are listening to the wrong voice. When we choose to follow the Spirit of God – we are choosing to walk after the Spirit and this is walking in the Everlasting Life from God above. If we continually choose to listen to and follow the promptings – the inspirations of God’s spirit – our spirits and souls will grow strong in the Lord. If we continually choose to follow the promptings and inspirations of the enemy into committing sins – we weaken our spirits and our souls and bring negative effects to our bodies also. We must look to be fed from the Great Spirit of God above unto the feeding and nourishing of our souls. Then our inner man being renewed by this work will grow stronger and stronger and be transformed into the true image of Christ. Recognizable by God and the Angels as having the markings of the creator.
So in summary: we have a body, a soul, and a spirit. They do all in their own special way have markings of the divinity of God. But they all in many ways are subject to the fallen nature of our world and our own soul stained and weighed down by sin. So trying to look within to find some kind of God portion is not a path to salvation, but one of destruction to the unrepentant heart. We need infillment, strength, inspiration, renewal, and salvation from our God above – then and only then will the His Kingdom be evident and grow within.
I agree with Truthseeker – that a lot of this stuff is new age, neo-pagan, and not from a good source. It is the very lie that the serpent told Adam and Eve: “ye shall be as gods.”
Seek God above and the Life and Humility of Christ and all these things shall be added. Praise God from Whom all blessings flow. Not god within – which is no god at all – unless we would be classed as a fallen god and false god – but rather Almighty God above.
As to hypocrite: Not everyone that is a hypocrite or has the traits of self-righteousness is as Jesus said to a particular group “you are of your Father the devil.” We should not judge anyone as such unless God Himself revealed it to us. There are many forms of hypocrisy and self-righteousness. There are worldly people who tell us to save the environment while they live in gigantic houses, fly private jets all over and own several gas guzzling cars. They are self-righteous hypocrites and may have nothing to do with being Christian. There are Christians that declare themselves righteous by interpreting certain bible verses excusing them from the necessity of obedience to Christ. These may be tolerant and understanding of all kinds of sin and appear entirely non-judgmental; but this too is a form of self-righteousness. They have declared themselves righteous when in fact they are not – having not received the sanctification of Christ or allowed the works of Christ to continue in their lives. This is also a form of hypocrisy to declare oneself righteous but have no evidence of the works of righteousness accomplished by the Spirit of Christ.
We as Christians should all pray for one another to come into the fullness of what God’s will is for each of us individually. Not what we believe is God’s will – but that the will of God Himself, apart from our feeble knowledge – might come to pass in each one’s life – on Earth as it is in Heaven.
“Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God.” Let us be humble as Peter and recognize that it is from Christ – the very Heart of God – that we receive everything and not look to something within us that simply doesn’t exist. Then we shall indeed receive the Keys of the Kingdom and be able to unlock that which truly is within us that God place there. Inspired from above into that which is below. On Earth as it is in Heaven.
Wilderness Voice
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guitarist63
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Posted: Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 07:45 pm |
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Yes, thanks Wilderness for a thorough discourse on body, soul and spirit. I agree with what you have said, as far as I have understood it. I understand that after the fall of Adam and Eve, the spirit part of them died. God's glory departed from them because of their disobedience to God's Will (his instructions to them) and that's how they came to be aware of their bodies for the first time as something to be ashamed of by covering themselves and hiding themselves from God's presence in the Garden of Eden.
I am probably going to be criticised for taking a literal view of scripture but I don't personally have any problem with a literal understanding of the text of the creation and the fall.
When I committed myself to Jesus Christ at the age of 16, I was made alive by faith through Christ when formerly my spirit was dead in my sinful and unredeemed state. I am still a sinner but I have been redeemed by faith in Christ. So the spirit is alive through Christ's Spirit in me when formerly it was dead. By daily committing myself to Christ, my spirit is nourished by God's Spirit and if I do not continue remaining "in the vine" (as Jesus described Himself), then I perish. So I am aware that faith needs to be accompanied by actions directed by God and this has to be a daily walk with God.
I have also heard about the notion of the god within which comes from eastern religion, including Buddhism, and reject it. I must not focus on myself or what is in myself but on God and His kingdom, as scripture tells me.
Last edited on Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 08:16 pm by guitarist63
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junkyardboy
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Posted: Fri Jan 4th, 2008 03:40 pm |
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i would certainly agree with truthseeker that the concept of being created in God's image is an interesting and challenging one.
an image would seem to present us as a reflection or a picture of God.
so what would that picture be?
certainly we are not nor have ever been...all knowing, all powerful, ever present or any of God's attributes.
we never have been nor ever will be God.
so what than is His image?
i believe that the one Godly image man had in adam's creation was ..purity
purity, holiness is the one attribute every one of God's characteristics is wrapped in.
His love is pure, His anger is pure, all His decisions and directions in our lives and the worlds is wrapped in purity.
though i may not understand many things that God would do in my life i can take comfort that His dealings with me are PURE and HOLY.
God can not and will not look upon or fellowship with sin!
the image of God, which we lost..purity...has been restored to us by God's pure love and pure grace in Jesus Christ.
when we see and experience God's direction in our lives, even those we would think are difficult and hurtful and painful, all those crazy things i may not understand i know at least that God operates from 100% purity.
for your consideration,
http://www.stevenjcamp.blogspot.com/
peter
____________________
have we been abandoned by God?
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/11/dr_john_macarth.html
http://www.valleybible.net/position_papers.php
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Seeking God
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Posted: Sat Jan 5th, 2008 01:02 am |
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Great discourse guys,
I'm reminded of a few verses,
For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ will all be made alive. (1Co 15:22)
How glorious He is!
We who have fallen, none of us are worthy, all of us deserve death.
since all have sinned and continue to fall short of God's glory. (Rom 3:23) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in union with Christ Jesus our Lord. (Rom 6:23)
But Christ has come to the world so we could have a chance to have eternal life, how blessed are those who know, believe and in union with Him.
Last edited on Sat Jan 5th, 2008 01:31 am by Seeking God
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