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Seeking_Christ
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Posted: Sat Jul 15th, 2006 02:48 am |
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I am wondering whether or not a Christian can loose his or her grace (salvation) in Christ's shed blood through repeated acts of rebellion (i.e., giving into sexual sin when he knows it is wrong).
I know Christ said that we should forgive seventy times seven if necessary, and that His own capacity for mercy is far greater than our own. Yet there are times when I slip up that I feel disgusted asking once again for forgiveness and mercy, because I've done so a hundred times in the past.
I have heard from some Christians that once obtained, salvation in Christ cannot be lost. There are others who reject this, and say that salvation can indeed be lost by a wayward follower of christ. Both use scripture to support their arguments. And leave me totally confused.
I'm not well versed in scripture. What are some of your thoughts on unlimited salvation and election (God selecting who will be saved and who will not be saved)?
I'd also like to hear your thoughts on my first question....will my repeated falls cause me to lose my salvation? 
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truthseeker
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Posted: Fri Jul 21st, 2006 05:01 am |
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The following is taken from Cedarville University's doctrinal statement.
6. We believe that all who receive by faith the Lord Jesus are born again by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God and thereby become the children of
God forever and are eternally secure.
John 1:12,13; 3:3-16; 5:24; 10:28,29
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I Peter 1:23
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II Peter 1:4-11.
I would add 1 John 1:8-9. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I do not see anything there that indicates it is true only a certain number of times.
I would also suggest reading Romans chapters 6 and 7, which speak both of not taking grace for granted, and of the apostle Paul's own struggle against the flesh, neglecting to do the good he desired to do, and doing the evil he desired not to do.
I have never quite figured out what the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit is, but I find no evidence that fleshly weakness is it. Continue to fight the good fight.
TruthSeeker
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DAVID
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Posted: Fri Aug 18th, 2006 03:47 am |
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Yes, salvation can be lost. Ezekiel 18:24 But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die.
Yes, we are saved and have salvation in JESUS, but if we are not living in the will of JESUS and committing sins (over and over again) that we know are wrong...JESUS is not the LORD of our lives. I say this b/c if JESUS truly were the center of someone's life...he/she would not be in bondage to satan, we would be strong through JESUS CHRIST and stomp on the face of the devil . The deeper our relationship with JESUS is, the easier it is to recognize and repent of our sins. Being Baptized or stating your a Christian or stating that "I accept JESUS as my SAVIOR" isn't a license to sin. The more we know, the more we are responsible for. We know right from wrong, and if "we" continue to do wrong without repenting we're not saved, "we" don't know JESUS so why would he know us.
James 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to GOD. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come near to GOD and he will come near to you.
I recommend that you listen to a testimony from Mary Baxter, read her book : The Devine Revelation of Hell. You can also get it on tape. You will hear more about lost salvation, I also pray that learn scripture for yourself rather than relying on others. The word of JESUS is a sword, because if "we" let it...it will seperate/cut us from the world.
Dancing,
David
Last edited on Fri Aug 18th, 2006 03:49 am by DAVID
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truthseeker
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Posted: Fri Aug 18th, 2006 02:43 pm |
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Hi David,
Did you join this forum just to respond to this thread? If so, it is a sad thing, and I would wonder how you happened across this site. If not, and you found this site in search of information and support for yourself, or someone you love, as the overwhelming majority of us have, it is sadder still that you believe as you do.
Praise God that we are under New Testament grace, not Old Testament Law. That is not to say that we cannot learn from the Old Testament, since we surely can, as "All Scripture is inspired...." Faith and grace are even found in the OT. How many times did your namesake stumble and seek God's forgiveness, likely knowing the sinfulness of the act prior to its commission, yet God called him a man after His own heart? Truly, only God can know our hearts and judge whether or not our acceptance of Christ's sacrifice is sincere. The parable of the sower makes it clear that hearing and even seeming to respond to the Gospel does not mean that roots have formed or fruit will grow. We are also told that "by their fruit ye shall know them," which can help us in discernment, but certainly not in judging. In the 6th and 7th chapters of Romans that I mentioned, the apostle Paul, whom Jesus went above and beyond to bring to Himself, says that he did the evil he did not want to do continually, while concurrently cautioning us not to abuse God's grace. Is Paul, then, by this admission, now residing in hell, which would consequently disqualify much of the NT? We are encouraged not to be satisfied with being babes, only suckling the milk of the Word, but it does not suggest that we will go to hell for not availing ourselves of the meat. I do not find anywhere in Scripture that God is capricious, but that he does not act apart from his divine attributes of both justice and mercy. Just as He is, would He not have spelled out exactly how many times we could commit the same sin and still retain salvation? Would He not have told us how quickly after committing a sin, or after how many sins, we must ask for forgiveness in order to receive it? Are you suggesting that it is actually possible to no longer sin after salvation? I hope not, because you would be calling God a liar, according to 1 John. Scripture, as far as I can find, does not rank a hierarchy of sin, some being more forgivable than others. I think that we as humans try to make some sins "worse" than others in order to pridefully pat ourselves on the back for not having committed them.
The only people to whom I believe I can say, "You are headed for hell," based on Scripture, not my own, fallible, human judgment, are those who definitively state that they do not believe that their only means of reaching God and heaven is through the forgiveness bought with the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross. Could that, perhaps, be exactly what blaspheming the Holy Spirit is?
I submit that we can no more lose salvation through works than gain it thereby.
TruthSeeker
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mike
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Posted: Mon Aug 28th, 2006 03:55 pm |
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David, I deleted your post because of the harsh tone and namecalling. We're all on the same team here; don't attack the others.
Please keep in mind that the main thrust of these forums are for support and encouragement, not for debate or shoving doctrine down each other's throat.
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