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| Difficult marriage | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19th, 2011 01:14 am |
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21st Post |
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claire Member
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I agree, I may not follow through with exposing him, I should not threaten this. I cant believe he told me I can go downtown to do my internet business, that is so awful. He has not spoken of this since the other day and I dare not bring it up right now. He has mentioned how he has a new web cam we can use to talk with one of my kids. I dont know what he is thinking. I want to clarify some things and hope you can reply. He has wanted to move away for years. Says he cant exercise here, eat good here, have a business here for cost reasons. He says he hates it here cuz of the memories of his infidelity etc. We have been here for many family reasons, taking care of parents and our children are here. I am very connected here, he is connected to no one. He has a small relationship with our kids that are not living here at home. He is close to a grandchild. I have been blamed for our being here, this is Claires life, all about Claire. He says if I cared I would say we should move, but instead I am cold, uncaring, a rock. I am so unlike that. I am such a server and i have tried soo hard to be a good wife. I can say, I am getting more and more numb The porn junk has gone on for more than 15 years that I am aware of. Off and On. And before that was a cheap, unfaithfulness though not complete if you know what I mean. That nearly killed me. The porn continues on I am sure though I wasnt sure til the other day. I am assuming because he said he needs to remove the temptation and only because he doesnt want me to be suspicious and that I want him to be a saint. He says it is no big deal and that as long as I feel the way I do about it things wont work. He wants me to change... I never hear I am sorry, no matter how awful he speaks about me and he says now that we dont have a marriage relationship. I feel bad, should I be initiating intimacy even though I feel so unloved and unwanted now? I feel like if I dont then I am making more distance between us. I feel so sad. So so sad. I dont know where I went wrong. Was I wrong for wanting to care for my invalid mother?? She was sick and crippled. Oh my gosh. I feel like I am in a very wrong place. I love the Lord so much, am serving him, trying to be what he calls me to be. I am so amazed at the deception. Oh, and he is angry because he said that the ways I reacted to the porn and the infidelity were wrong and caused so much pain and damage. I used words like betrayed and disgusting. I was so upset at first. I was kind later, after the initial reactions but they dont count. I sure hope he cant find these entries on my computer....
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19th, 2011 02:05 am |
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22nd Post |
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truthseeker Administrator 
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Hi Claire, Unless that web cam stays locked up by you where he can't get it, except for chatting with the kids, it needs to be returned. That is gasoline next to a bonfire! He may not be able to engage in his prefered method of exercise, if it is outdoors and weather is not conducive, but anyone can exercise in their own home, so that is bogus! How can he not make healthy food choices there? Also bogus! Yes, some places are less conducive to being in business, but someone with initiative will still manage, or will make the best of what is available. If the memories haunt him, it is because he has not forgiven himself, and moving will not change that. The marriage relationship is not made or broken in the bedroom, but long before that. See 1 Cor. 13:4-8. Physical intimacy is icing on the cake to a good marriage relationship, but is not even really intimacy if the emotional connection is not whole. I don't know what all the options might have been for your mom's care, but it doesn't matter now anyway. The decision was made, it is water under the bridge, and he needs to get over it. The chances are pretty high, unless I miss my guess, that it was exactly where God needed you. He has apparently not let the Lord work out the truth of Phil. 4:11-13. Someone who is at peace with God can be at peace anywhere; someone who is not at peace with God will be at peace nowhere. Asking a wife to respond to physical and/or visual adultery without expression of anguish is like asking her to accept being pummeled in the face without crying! Yes your reaction made him feel bad, and well it should have! I'm not saying that we are utterly excused for ANY reaction, but I believe that most reactions are small potatoes when compared to the enormity of the offense. TruthSeeker
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19th, 2011 03:39 am |
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23rd Post |
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TM2 Member
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Man, I don't understand your question about your companion. If you want replies, you may have to explain it again. Perhaps it would be best to start a new thread with the question? Letting this thread focus on claire seems to me like it's probably the right path. Tim M.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19th, 2011 03:39 am |
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24th Post |
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TM2 Member
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claire, On webcams: My boss bought us all webcams several years ago, thinking they would be useful for communication within the Department. I couldn't refuse to take one, but I have not opened the box. (To be fair, there is now also a camera on my laptop. Again, I didn't want that and it worried me, but I've been OK with it. If I ever start feeling otherwise, I'll cover it with a neat square of black paint.) On moving: I still think the burden is on him to show that he's serious about personal transformation. When he has changed as much as he can in your current home, then is the time to think about moving. A common principle of 12-step fellowships says no big changes in the first year; so you would be completely justified in refusing even to consider moving before he has a year of solid, transformative recovery (the details of which you should spell out of you're going to set such a boundary). Lots of things in your discussion are red flag descriptions of an active addict not yet ready to change: - Blaming you is a huge one. - Wanting you to change. - Claiming it's not a big deal. - Anger. - Not understanding that disgusting betrayal can appropriately be called what it is. - Your own fear is also a huge warning sign. Look at some of the things you've said in this post. You dare not bring things up. You hope that you can hide your thoughts and feelings from him. He's blaming you while you're knocking yourself out for him. That's not how it's supposed to be. None of that is consistent with a sincere desire to recover. Tim M.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19th, 2011 02:11 pm |
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25th Post |
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Devastated Wife Member
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Dear Claire, Please re-read your post. Try to step outside of yourself and outside of the situation and re-read your post. Why are you spending even one additional nanosecond on this relationship? What is it that you hope to return to? What is it that you hope to reclaim? Was there ever a point in your marriage that you felt loved, honored, cherished? I ask you these questions because these are the questions I've asked myself. When I answer them honestly, I realize that I felt duped from day one. I was trying to figure out how to extricate myself from my marriage on my first anniversary, but shortly thereafter, I found myself pregnant........so I stayed. I knew something was terribly wrong even then. (My husband admitted to me that hardcore print media porn came into our first apartment before our first anniversary. I wasn't crazy then, I'm not crazy now.) I know believe I made a terrible mistake when I decided to stay in my marriage. In my case, I've determined that saving the marriage for the sake of saving the marriage will kill me. I suggest that saving your marriage for the sake of saving the marriage will kill you. I really don't think we were ever intended to live in or put up with these marriages. We married a delusion, an illusion, a carefully crafted facade. The man you thought you married doesn't exist---NEVER existed. The man I thought I married doesn't exist---NEVER existed. That's a terrible realization to come to.......but I do think that is the reality of the situation. My best, DW
____________________ My best, Devastated Wife |
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19th, 2011 03:41 pm |
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26th Post |
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Devastated Wife Member
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Dearest Claire, It troubles me to know that you are in a frankly abusive relationship. Sometimes it is hard to see these things clearly and most often, it is hard to believe that we are worth rescuing from these relationships. One of the questions I've learned to ask myself is this: If your daughter came to you and told you she was in an abusive relationship and described this precise situation to you, what would you advise her to do? Sometimes, removing yourself from the situation or equation and imagining someone that you love dearly is in this same situation helps to bring the correct answer into sharp relief. You are worth rescuing. You are going to have to rescue yourself...he certainly will not do it for you..........but please know you're worth it. My best, DW
____________________ My best, Devastated Wife |
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19th, 2011 03:47 pm |
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27th Post |
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Man Member
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truthseeker wrote: Hi Clair,Yes... Tim is great! I think he is good to read, Thanks
____________________ May the Lord bless you all! |
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| Posted: Tue Jul 19th, 2011 04:07 pm |
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28th Post |
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Man Member
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Man wrote: Yea, maybe relations are relations and that this principle is equal in many relations; That someone wanna blame others. What should the victim do then? He/ She has to say "No"? "This is not my fault"? "If you do this, I do that." and no hoping to be accepted or be a nice-guy?Hi Tim, I will try to be a little more clear maybe: I was trying to kindo maybe recognize the feeling of being not seen, not respected, laughed at and so on. I guess that the only way or the best way that I can relate to these things that we discuss here are my own feelings/ my own story. I am not married. I am single man. It's just so that I can recognize the feeling that others try to blame me and it might not be sexual things. It's just the same principle maybe? Maybe I have big communication-problems, that I am often talking with question-marks and then people think that I ask. Last edited on Thu Jul 21st, 2011 09:40 pm by Man ____________________ May the Lord bless you all! |
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20th, 2011 10:29 pm |
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29th Post |
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claire Member
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In re to a web cam, what does that mean to someone who looks at porn?? I agree so much that if you can not be content where God has you, you will not be content else where. I believe that my husband learned very young that comfort comes from yourself and the appreciation of others. He learned about love and affection from an abuser. He had none from his mother and had no father in his life. He believed that I would be his other half, think as he does, do as he says, be the one to fill all of his empty places. When I would emerge as a different person he would not like it. When I objected to anything he said or did, he did not like that. One of our counselors told him that we are separate people, and he has not gotten over that. His self hatred and feelings of no value, are no surprise to me. But, I can not continue to be blamed, disliked and criticized for the way that I am and the way that I am convicted in my life. He has helped to take me from me!! I have always played the co dependent game as I grew up in an alcoholic home and learned; shame, secrecy, how to be accepted (in an unhealthy way) and how to please people... All wrong. I am only this past couple of years beginning to see who I really am! I am not all that he says and I shouldnt be all that he says I should be. Yes, I should be a biblical wife, an honoring wife, but I should not be all that God is shaping me to be. I should never be made to feel that I have no value. I have been verbally abused and my marriage has been mistreated morally. I hate that. As I get stronger he hates it. But he is not yet willing to change his ways or his thinking. I see him trying to be nice, helpful etc, but when it comes to how he thinks, there is no heart change, no repentance. I read all that you all write, and I say wow, I am not in the wrong here. But I also feel that as I give this more to God, I am growing. I am getting stronger in HIM. I need to be able to say what I really feel and that I want him to get help. I do not think that at this point he will. I need to learn to walk away when he is speaking to me the way that he has. I recorded most of our last conversation and listened it the next day. I was horrified. He is insulting, degrading and very mean and hurtful with his words. I am sure this comes from his pain and from not being able to control me emotionally as before. As he said, he says mean things to break me. REALLY??????????????? That is sick. I do not want to be sick and I am seeking and searching your words and the Lord in all of this. He needs help and a major renewing of his mind.
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20th, 2011 10:38 pm |
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30th Post |
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TM2 Member
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Webcams: The world is awash with cybersex sites in which people interact via webcam and watch one another masturbate. For many porn viewers, it's sort of the next natural step. I can be safe in my room and have real women in real time doing what I ask and watching me. Thanks be to God, I quit before that point, but it's a problem for many people. Tim M.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21st, 2011 05:03 pm |
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31st Post |
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Man Member
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claire wrote: In re to a web cam, what does that mean to someone who looks at porn?? Hi Claire, thanks for sharing. I am single man. I am not so used to that kind of close relationships, but I wonder if the principles are quite equal for human relationships; That it might be quite usual to use control, harassment and other forms of trying to change the attitude of other people instead of changing myself. Tim's comments might be quite good. How to meet manipulation? I am not sure, but maybe with confronting. Thanks. Last edited on Thu Jul 21st, 2011 09:24 pm by Man ____________________ May the Lord bless you all! |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21st, 2011 07:06 pm |
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32nd Post |
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claire Member
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Today I encountered more evidence that what my husband wants is basically a machine. In just usual small talk, he stated how a friend of his travels the world and has no time for facebook. I said well, I cant travel the world and I find facebook to be good for keeping in touch with family and friends. He said you can travel the world and I said, no I cant. Doesnt that sound stupid and trivial????? But it made him upset and he said to our son, why does your mother has such trouble with people who disagree with her?? That made me realize, I can not even speak my mind if it disagrees with him because he wants me to just be compliant and agreeable. Maybe he is right... He reacts then with a drop to depression, hardly talking and makes me feel like I am just something he would like to eliminate from his life. I now feel guilty, and bad about me cuz I have my own thoughts and perhaps I should just not voice my thoughts anymore. He is the only one in my life that I feel that I walk on egg shells with, cant really be me with. He even tells me that I am smiling too big or being too enthusiastic. Is any of this right?? Am I just a contentious and argumentative woman?? Why is life so hard?
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21st, 2011 07:29 pm |
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33rd Post |
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Devastated Wife Member
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For the love of Pete. "Maybe he's right?" ARE YOU NUTS? This man is sick, twisted, abusive, and demented. Know that you are not nor were you ever intended to be an automaton, a maid, a servant, or a concubine. You SHOULD NEVER FEEL GUILTY FOR SPEAKING YOUR MIND!!!!!!!!!!! NEVER! Get out. Get some help to overcome your co-dependent tendencies and make a new life for yourself. This man has destroyed you. You really need to find the strength to leave. My best, DW
____________________ My best, Devastated Wife |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21st, 2011 08:35 pm |
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34th Post |
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aaronleong Member
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Devastated Wife wrote: For the love of Pete. "Maybe he's right?" ARE YOU NUTS? +1 to what DW said. Leaving may give your husband a serious reality check.
____________________ Me: 35, Wife: 29 Son: 3.5 M: 6 yrs, T: 8 yrs Separated: 06/04/10; Wife wanted divorce: 11/10; Wife & son moved 02/26/11; Wife serves papers 03/20/11 (paper dated 03/14) Responded 04/12/11 Filed child custody 04/20/12 |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 21st, 2011 08:44 pm |
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35th Post |
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LadyP Member 
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aaronleong wrote: Devastated Wife wrote:For the love of Pete. "Maybe he's right?" ARE YOU NUTS? Count me in too, it's hard but you MUST stand up to this man! LadyP
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22nd, 2011 12:43 am |
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36th Post |
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TM2 Member
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Is any of this right?? Am I just a contentious and argumentative woman? No, and no. As a matter of principle, I don't advise others either to stay together or to separate, but I profoundly concur wit the others that what you describe is a classic story of an abusive and deluded addict and a spouse who is still struggling to find her own voice. What would happen if you showed him your conversations here? Is that what should happen when a person opens up bravely to their spouse? What's your response to those thoughts? To be clear: that last paragraph is intended as a thought experiment, not as advice on action. It is not at all clear to me that actually carrying out that experiment would be safe. If you agree that it would not be safe, then I invite you to think about whether you are content living in such a situation or whether it is time to find another way. May you be well. Tim M.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22nd, 2011 04:31 am |
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37th Post |
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claire Member
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I called my husband at work today because I was so upset about what had happened. Trying to find my real self and speak up is what I am in the process of doing. I asked him, when you say things to me, do you just want me to say ok, because I am feeling like you dont want me to say what I think as you take it as being argumentative when I dont agree with you. He said, no it is ok I just dont like it when you sound like you just accept things and that you can not do things, (like the world travel) I felt brave to ask and felt ok with his response. I am writing this to be fair to him... However, he is so sulky alot of the time, so depressed etc, and can be so short and harsh. He goes up and down like a yo yo. Well, like I said before I dont know the extent of the porn at this point but I do know, that the cycles we go in, are almost predictable now. He vents and practically kills me with his words, then he seems better. He is helpful and can be light and nice. Then he starts getting quiet again, short with me and sullen. Then when he gets really quiet I know something is brewing. I then know at some point the venting will start again. It does not seem the pattern for a Christian man that is following the Lord and living as he should. His anger and resentment never go away, they just hide for a time. Thank you for listening to me. I know it must get boring. DW you are a strong woman and you are so kind to be so supportive of me.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22nd, 2011 12:41 pm |
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38th Post |
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TM2 Member
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That's a very familiar pattern for abusers - exploding in unpredictable rage and then becoming all lovey-dovey. It's how I lived a lot of my life, though I wasn't aware of it at the time. It can go away when one begins to work on oneself, but I don't think it ends as long as the active addiction persists. At least, that's how it has worked for me. In passing, psychologists tell me that the pattern of unpredictable anger, however rare, is one of the most harmful aspects of any addiction for the children. Just something to think about. Tim M.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22nd, 2011 09:21 pm |
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39th Post |
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claire Member
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Thank you for your response. When I hear that an addicted person has predictable behavior such as this it shows me even more that I am not the problem, I mean I contribute, but that he is acting as one who has the problems... IN re to his attacks on me, it is very rare, if ever that the kids are around. I usually move it to another part of the house or elsewhere when it begins. I am getting to a point now though, that I may just move myself and not listen anymore... Wouldnt that be amazing?? He is not that way with the kids, he just vents at me and lets me know what about me does not please him or lets me know what all needs to change in me.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 22nd, 2011 10:43 pm |
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40th Post |
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Man Member
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claire wrote: "He is not that way with the kids, he just vents at me and lets me know what about me does not please him or lets me know what all needs to change in me." I think that quite many people are quite interested in changing others? Manipulation, I think. I think I am too unsecure; Using too many "?-signs"...
____________________ May the Lord bless you all! |
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